Explain to me

Why this is illegal?

Federal agents have raided sites in Idaho and Indiana linked to the “Liberty Dollar,” a silver coin used by groups that oppose the Federal Reserve System and the federal income tax, a newspaper reported.

Basically, some people that oppose the federal reserve system have been minting these “Liberty Dollar” coins on silver and gold.  Since no stores accept them and they’re not considered legal tender, I don’t really see how the fed is going to prosecute this as a crime.  Now, I’m willing to entertain explanations, because I really don’t get this one.  What exactly is illegal about me starting up a minting operation and cranking out what amounts to pretty pictures stamped on precious metals?


  1. I’m not a Lawyer, but near as I can tell, NOTHING. But that won’t stop the Feds from sending BATMEN or whatever they term their enforcers these days from coming to put a stop to anyone attempting to circumvent their system. And if it’s not illegal to make your own medium of exchange (or even barter!) expect it to be made so. SOON. Picking up our marbles and going home hasn’t been an option since 1865……..we don’t even have the option not to play……..

  2. “What exactly is illegal about me starting up a minting operation and cranking out what amounts to pretty pictures stamped on precious metals?”-Ahab.

    Not a damn thing! See below a comment I made on another site regarding this. This isn’t about counterfeiting. Excerpted to remove parts not germane to this issue since it was a discussion about varied subjects.

    I suspect this has much more to do with the upcoming presidential election than it does with “counterfeiting”. For one thing, counterfeiting must be done with intent to supplant proper currency. There is no intent provable here. Especially since the coins or medallions do not in any way resemble any coin or paper currency state authorized to be in circulation as legal tender.

    Two, every carnival you ever went to would put anyone’s picture on any legal tender bill you offered up, as a novelty. The treasury department has ruled and it has been upheld that this is not counterfeiting because there was no intent to supplant, replace, or pass these bills as legal tender.

    The government knows all this, it is their own ruling. These are the rules and positions they, themselves, have laid down regarding this issue.

    I fully expect all Liberty Dollars’ legal troubles will go away after Ron Paul does not get the nomination of the Republican Party, even though he had no hand in the production of the coins.

    This is an attack on free speech in an attempt to fix an election, so as not to get a consitutionalist in the White House, nothing less.

    Of course, the owners of those medallions will be out huge sums in legal fees, but the government cannot show counterfeiting under the statutes and certainly not under the constitution. One caveat, it is possible with the state of American citizen apathy and ignorance, that a jury could be gulled by a corrupt judge abetting the corrupt prosecutor.

    As to any attempted passing of these medallions as legal tender the charges should be laid against the individuals who so tried to use them, if and when that occurs. I would bet Liberty Dollars never once represented these medallions as legal tender. At most, they would have presented them as investments in precious metals.

    The government knows it is wrong. It doesn’t care. They have two chances to gain from this and no chance to lose. If in the best case scenarios the charges are dismissed, or second best scenario the owners are acquitted at trial, the government has still derailed any attention these medallions might have brought to a candidate every bureaucrat fears for his stance on the constitution.

    In the worst case scenario, the judge is a soulmate of Jimm Larry Hendren and helps the state railroad an innocent man who has committed no crime, or aids the prosecution with an ignorant and pliable jury, they win the case, keep the precious metal and get bragging rights.

    They have no downside. I fear before long the citizens of this country must supply them a dynamic downside.

    This isn’t about counterfeiting. Else the state would be going after every precious metal dealer that offer gold medallions for sale and they are not. Watch any late night television or read the back pages of any magazine and you will see advertisements for these medallions everywhere offered by many different vendors. The only difference is they don’t have a likeness of a candidate for his party’s nomination as a presidential aspirant.

  3. Looking around a bit, it seems that the Libery Dollar is really intended to be used as currency. They go all “Oh, it’s not money, it’s for barter!”, but the intent is obvious. WIkipedia has an interesting article on the subject.

  4. What’s next? Invade all the homes of people who pre-1965 dimes and quarters (made of 90% silver, looking like U.S. money, and useful in barter transactions)? It’s amazing the lengths that the government is willing to go to to defend a broken monetary system.

  5. This has happened before, but I don’t recall the details well. Some group had tried to start an alternate bank which kept reserves in silver, and they backed their notes 100% in silver. The feds raided them and took all their reserves. I don’t know the charges or results. The bank was out west, Idaho maybe. Sorry I don’t have any real facts, just distant memory.

  6. as for barter, why is it not barter to trade something you have for a precious metal?

    LIbery Dollar made statements that their medallions could be used as such, but isn’t that what every commodities house that specializes in precious metals for investment purposes do? None of them have been raided and seized.

    Also, a little research shows that Liberty Dollar filed suit against several government agencies and federal officials a little more than a year ago. A judge’s decision on allowing the case to proceed was expected no later than Sep. this year. It still hasn’t come down.

    Methinks the timing is a little too convenient from both the election tampering aspect and the lawsuit. As vague as the affadavits are makes me suspicious.

    One could read any crime into them, but only if the accuser specifically said what crime they suspected, because their is nothing there that would justify an independent judge or magistrate to arrive at it on his own from the reading of the documents, and thus decide there was enough evidence for a warrant.

    No, I don’t have any Liberty Dollars, nor do I want any.

  7. …but no one is ACCEPTING these items as legal tender…if no one will take them, isn’t intent irrelevant? Who’s next? The Franklin Mint? Don’t they mint collectable coins that are worthless except for some gold that might be found in them, and their “value” as “pretty things” to display?

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