1. Seems like it’s more useful for generating David Paterson jokes than as a firearm. And what’s wrong with that, I ask you?

  2. I’m not an expert, but how will .45 ACP behave in that gun?

    It seems like quite a bit of freebore before hitting the forcing cone.

    1. Neither does my Ruger Security Six 357 Mag loaded with Rem 125 grn softpoints, out the barrel at about 1400 fps. Even if i was to hit the arm just one time, what do you think is going to happen????
      And if there jacked up on PCP the only thing that gonna stop them is a head shot. I have nothing against autos, my carry gun is a Kimber Compact Aluminum 45 ACP for it’s ease of concealment. Yes the the revolver still has a place in the self defense, and competition world, just ask Jerry Miculek. I rest my case…..

      1. idk if its the best defence gun, but that is subject calling somthing the best….
        idk about you but i think some buck shot combined with 45lc or 45 acp could do the job just fine, also if your in a gun fight in your house i gonna be close range so no problem hitting the target especally if you got some varity loaded in the gun

        also nice part about a 6 shooter is that they dont jam

  3. OK, first we get Ruger “borrowing” their inspiration from Kel-Tec. Now we get S&W “borrowing” from Taurus. What’s next Sig “borrowing from” High Point?

  4. I think this is the first time S&W has bothered to copy something from Taurus.

    And, can anyone tell me why I would need this over, say, a 5-shot jframe like Chief or another model 36?

    1. There is absolutely no reason to own these guns other than “I think they look cool” and “I know nothing about ballistics and think .410 will be better for self defense, because shotguns kick ass in Call of Duty.”

    2. Your basic pocket pistol/ belly gun with a good pullin trigger is the way to go. A SW concealable 5 shot is easy to carry and will do the job in most cases if self defense warrants the need for a purchase…. just do what anybody would consider doing in a bad situation 1st try to get the H out of there if possible and if it’s a deadly threat type situation without any other option point/aim for center mass. This Taurus look a like (Governor) is a novelty piece that most people will want for fun….I can’t imagine anyone using it for their go to gun for home self defense…. You probably know what I’m about to say…. nothing will ever match the old 12 guage 00 buck for home protection not to mention the law enforcement 12 gauge magnum 3″ round (15 00 pellets). I will say this I’ve shot 410 2 1/2 buck shot (4 000 pellets) and it is a powerful round but accuracy of multiple hits is questionable after 10-12 yards….. I’ve also shot the winchester self defense round (3 plates followed by 12 BB’s) into a burn barrel and it blew a clean hole in it about the size of a golf ball at 5-6 yards away (nastiest pistol round that I’ve ever shot at that distance) If someone was considering a purchase of the governor for car jacking prevention I could see a need for it but how would you conceal it if you needed to take it with you? I think your question of why you would need this gun vs. a chief model 36 is a great question?
      Hats off to SW though… I’m a huge fan and admire their dedication towards customer service and commitment to providing only the best in quality firearms. I’m glad they produced the Governor now it will force Taurus to improve their quality and service standards to keep a fair market share in the future sales of the Judge.

  5. When Gun Tests reviewed the 3″ Judge, they were getting 620-670fps velocities with .45LC ammo.

    Which sucks. 199ft/lb of energy is less than a .38 delivers.

    1. I just looked up the Judge test in Gun Tests, because I’ve been thinking about picking up a judge to carry as a backup to my muzzleloader and was a little concerned about the 199 ft/lbs of energy. The loads that they used for testing seem to be in the power level designed to be safe in old SA .45 revolvers. They fired one shot with a hot Cor Bon load, and said the recoil was too punishing so they pretty much gave up (it shoudl be noted that they chose an alloy frame version for their test). So hotter defensive or hunting loads (though I need to check and see if the Buffalo Bore .45 rounds would be safe to fire in a Judge) should provide much more energy.

      1. The Judge will not handle the Buffalo Bore +p ammo. I own the 2.5″ chamber judge with the 6 1/2 ” barrel and I love shooting it. If you want something to shoot +p take a look at the Raging Judge it will shoot 454 casaull .410 or 45LC.

        1. Thanks. It looks like the standard pressure Buffalo Bore (which seems similar in performance to the CorBon +P) will be OK. As soon as I looked at the Buffalo Bore +P data, I realized that it is not for a Judge.

    2. What type of loads were they using? there are some good SD loads out there for the 45LC just gotta look for them, there aren’t as many for the 45LC as there is for the rest of the more popular calibers used in SD. Just remember the 45LC has been with us since the 1870’s it almost went obsolete, had it not been for the SASS. So allot of ammo manufactures focus on cowboy loads for the 45LC which duplicates the loads of the of the 1800’s I would imagine with guns coming out like the judge and the governor more R&D will be done for the 45LC.

  6. Against all odds (and common sense), the Judges continue to sell well. S&W is just following the money – can’t really blame ’em.

    The scandium frame means this sucker will be expensive, though – not sure how many people will pony up for a premium Judge. Especially since people who spend that much money on a revolver probably know better.

  7. I’m a hardcore S&W fan. When you cut me, I bleed blue and white…

    …and I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

  8. Talk about “trash for cash”… S+W will sell thousands of this abmination, and a little piece of their legacy will die with each and every one of them.

  9. I think it would be okay as a snake gun out west – I tried shooting the snake shot outa a Glock 17 – did not even slow that rattler down – so I can see a use –

    1. Our “friends” at BATFE have just shut down the Taurus Raging (28 gauge). The Link on the Taurus site to the 2011 Taurus Raging no longer works.

  10. its like a judge… but not made by monkeys. all of the people who say revolvers never jam, have never shot a taurus

    1. I have had a Taurus 82 as a backup and snake gun since ’92. After countless rounds fired, guess what. Never a jam or any other problem. Revolvers DON’T jam. They can’t. And I’m not a gun snob like most of the posts here. What good is a weapon if you buy according to PR and then just put it in the cabinet. I’d rather face a man with a 1911 gold cup who uses it once a year than a man with a Taurus who uses it everyday.

      1. Carl,

        Never a jam or any other problem. Revolvers DON’T jam. They can’t.

        Oh, they most certainly can, too.

      2. They may not jam but they can still be problematic. Revolvers are not fool proof and often have more moving parts to fire the gun than semi autos do. Taurus revolvers most certainly do fail from time to time.

      3. My little titanium Taurus .38 jammed ALL the time. The gunsmith theorized that the cylinder was heating up and expanding, which caused it to bind after 2-3 rounds. Never was I so glad to get rid of a gun.

        Not that I’m a Taurus hater. I have a Taurus Millenium Pro in .45 that works flawlessly, apart from an odd habit of spitting brass in wildly random patterns.

      4. I actually have no problems with Taurus revolvers in general. I almost bought one. I just think the judge is a solution in search of a problem.

  11. Why all the Judge hatred? I’m thinking I’ll pick one up as a backup gun for deer hunting with my muzzleloader. That way I have the option of popping some small game with .410 or finishing off a deer with some .45 Long Colt if I have to. Well, that and I want to see if I can get into double digits on the skeet range with it.

    1. I’d be very surprised if that had enough power to be a legitimate deer hunting gin, even in a 6″. As for smaller game, most of the pattern tests. I’ve seen with it make it seem pretty useless for anything but snakes at close range.

      People dislike them because they are bad at what they do. They’re a poor shotgun and a really poor 45.

      1. It’s worse than that: It’s a shotgun that throws a miniscule load of shot in a giant doughnut shaped “pattern” (If by pattern you mean “scatters shot everywhere except where you are aiming”), and is a really huge, poor .45.

      2. Not a primary deer hunting gun. For finishing off a deer at a distance of a few feet, if needed, and also having the ability to potentially take out a squirrel, rabbit, or grouse at 10-15′ with .410.

        I’d never consider trying to use a judge as a hunting pistol.

  12. I don’t use “LOL” very often, but I literally LOLed, totally out of control, for about a minute.

    This is JUST what I’ve been waiting for; a .45 acp revolver with a manly 3-inch long cylinder to make the balance and proportions perfect.

    And the Scandium is perfect! If you’re going to make a super-light defensive revolver, it really doesn’t make sense not to use a design that is not only awkwardly huge but also requires more of the expensive metal you were supposed to be using to cut weight (because adding a lot more metal is a great way to cut weight.)

    The fact that S&W now apes Taurus is only icing on the cake.

  13. There are a lot of women that are buying the Taurus Judge for self defense. Regardless of what **YOU** may think of it, “The presence of a gun is often enough to prevent a crime.” The odds are unlikely I’d buy one, but if someone bought it for self defense and it thwarted an attack; then it is G2G for me.

    1. The people dogging it, including myself, do so because it has the ballistics of a .380 with the weight and size of a .44 magnum. If you just want the presence of a gun, with the ballistics of a .380 or .38, just get the .380 or .38. At least they don’t weight as much, and they’re probably more accurate to boot.

      1. Well said. The judge is for people that don’t know about it’s ballistics. It doesn’t shoot 45LC well either because the rifling is shallow to accommodate the 410. Life is too short to waste your time with crappy guns like a Judge or now the Governor.

  14. Wow, this is going over almost as well as the LC9!

    I can’t wait to see the 12GA “Raging President.”

  15. Wow, S&W doing a copy of Taurus, it’s a sad day, but if they can sell enough to drop the price on the 629 or 29 revolver I’m all for it., like that would happen.

  16. Fer cryin’ out loud — it’s a snake gun. It doesn’t even have adjustable sights, and you complain about the freebore? Quit pretending that it’s supposed to be anything other than what it is.

    Come out to West Texas in March, and I’ll show you what snake guns are for. Try to imagine that some people actually kill things with their guns — for about a month, 10-20 times a day.

    1. I’m totally fine with getting it as a snake gun – although snake shot in a normal revolver isn’t terrible from what I’ve read – but that isn’t why every gun store in Ohio has a whole shelf full of the things. The only dangerous snakes we have around here are endangered.

    2. Come out to West Texas in March, and I’ll show you what snake guns are for.

      Come into downtown Indy in January and ‘splain to me why all these people are buying “snake guns”…

      1. “Come into downtown Indy in January and ‘splain to me why all these people are buying “snake guns”…”

        I don’t have to make the trip: I can tell you from here that they are buying them becauses they are foolish dupes, sucked in by a slick ad campaign of glossy ads and “reviews” in NRA publications, and youtube videos of overripe watermellons getting torn up by birdshot. These folks know less about ballistics than they do about H.A.L.O. …… and once they buy into the hype, and drop $500 on this thing, they become emotionally invested in their choice, and label everbody that thinks it’s a crappy gun as a “Hater”……

  17. Buy a 44 mag and load up some shot capsules if you really feel the need to shoot shot out of a revolver, at least when toting a huge gun you have the punch of a big gun!
    And you can still shoot snakes and rats with a shot load. As far as I’m concerned the only selling point to the judge and it’s followers is that it can shoot more than onr round of ammo, a sort of good thing if wide spread rioting, WW3, or a zombie invasion actually happens.
    Otherwise who cares!

  18. Dear S&W,

    Please do not copy bad ideas like this one. I mean, come on, right off the top of my head I can think of four things that would have been better to invest in:

    M&P 15-22 in 22 magnum
    M&P 15 chambered in 7.62×39
    M&P TRUE compact (not that midget that needs a booster seat)
    M&P slim in 9mm, 40, and 45acp

    1. M&P 15-22 in 22 magnum

      I think the day of the straight-blowback .22WMR autochucker is about over for liability reasons.

      1. Really? I’m curious as to why you think so since I was under the impression that .22 Magnum, or rather .22 WMR, was getting a resurgence with things like the Kel-Tec PMR-30.

        1. The PMR-30 uses a quasi-locked breech to prevent the out-of-battery ka-BOOM!s that caused the discontinuation of most other .22WMR autoloaders.

          1. *blinks in surprise* Wow! That I was not aware of and has me re-considering the entire .22WMR rifle idea.

  19. {You can guess what market S&W is targeting with this.}

    Really ?

    I can’t, I must be dumb or something.

    Someone tell me please !

  20. Man – A bunch of folks drank the “hater-ade”. Its about S&W recognized that companies that respond to customer desires are rewarded with sales. Ruger went to school with KelTec and now we have the LCP and LC9 – Makes me happy! Is the Govenor a serious firearm? Serious fun I think! Even if all someone does is perforate coke cans and tote it for snakes – its cool. I’ve been shooting handguns for 37 years and have been guilty of gun snobbery myself. If we only shot what we needed – we’d have a glock and TC Contender – Boring! Its great to live in the USA where can turn up our nose at something and others can have a millions dollars worth of fun. Now if S&W can build a 10oz 327 trail gun with adjustable sights and a 3″ barrel………..

  21. “no one ever went broke underestimating the intellect of the american public” p. t. barnum

    1. The Governator will be reserved for it’s -2 version, which will be at least 28g, maybe 12g, more then likely 10g! If you are going go go Governator, you gotta go big!!

  22. Im a proud owner of more then one Taurus and more then one S&W, The quality of the S&W wil NEVER out do the LIFTIME warenty of the Taurus. I can use my judge as a freakin hammer 30 years from now and then send it back in and get a new one. “no that I ever will”. Also, none of my Taurus’s have ever jammed, If you are having a jamming problem with your judge then check your ammo. a 3 inch 410 shell will not work in a gun chambered for 2 1/2, dah. Also my 45acp Taurus 1911 is my best shooting pistol, it puts the rounds in the middle ever time with out jamming, my secret is cleaning after ever use. dah, Take care of your guns and the will take care of you

  23. I own a taurus judge with a 2.5” chamber and three inch barrel, shooting 45 long colt ammo i can bust a 4” solid block at 25 yards, and shooting federal personal defense ammo it will punch through 3/4” plywood at 25 yards. I have never had the first problem with this gun and i have put a lot of shots through it. I feel completely safe with this gun beside my bed at night and would never hesitate to use it to defend my life.

  24. The 4 pellet buckshot from federal premium has good ballistics. (not to be confused with 4 shot) 4 .36 caliber pellets shot out at 900-1200 fps, (depending on barrel size) with a decent tight group. Go online, you will see this particular round meets the FBI standard of 12 inch ballistic gel penetration.

    The older .410 ammo with slower burning ammo didn’t cut mustard, but the new stuff is pretty good. And before anyone quotes “the box o truth” that was done with outdated stuff. I would like to see a new test done with the Federal Premium buckshot or the Winchester PDX1.

  25. I bought a Judge Magnum for home defense. It is loaded with 2 Winchester Supreme Elite PDX1 410s, followed by 2 Federal Premium 4 Pellets – 000 Buck, followed by 1 Winchester Supreme Elite PDX1 45LC.

    The Winchester Supreme Elite PDX1 410 has 3 plated cylinder projectiles up front, followed by 12 plated BB’s.

    Their claim to fame is “Optimal Pentetration… Compensates for Aim Error…Effective Short Range Personal Defense Protection”

    The Federal Premium 4 Pellet – 000 Buck are 4 pellets about .36 caliber.

    Their claim to fame is an accurate shot is like being hit with 4 .36 caliber shots simultaniously, which is more effective than a double tap.

    The Winchester Supreme Elite PDX1 45LC. is a 225 GR. JHP Bonded Personal Protection Hollow Point.

    Their claim to fame: “The new Winchester Supreme Elite Bonded PDX1, which was chosen by the FBI as their primary service round…The Bonded PDX1 is engineered to maximize terminal ballistics, as defined by the demanding FBI test protocol, which simulates real-world threats. ”

    I feel the Judge, and the way I have loaded it, affords me a good chance at stopping advancement of a middle of the might home invasion. Assuming I can get to the head of the stairs before they round the corner to come up the stairs, the first two shots will cover the staircase nicely. The second two shots should put and end to any further advancement, and the last shot, well if it gets that far, I better be a great shot! My working distance falls between 13 to 17 feet, top to bottom.

    If you are not an excellent marksman, with nerves of steel, when your door gets kicked in @ 3.am., I suggest you get a Judge!

    As far Smith and Wesson duplicating the Judge, it looks like that old adage: anything you can do, I can do better! I am not down on S&W, I own 2. A Model 29 classic and a model 317.

    My evening, laying in my recliner, watching tv gun, is my Henry Big Boy 44 REM MAG leaver action rifle. 10 rounds of Federal Premium 44 REM MAG 225 grain Vital Shok with Barnes Expanders!

    1. Ron, have you seen the gel test results of those loads? Have you seen the spread of those loads? .45LC is your best bet, and the Judge is not the best .45LC gun.

      1. Tom,

        I fully understand there is no end to ballistic tests
        and there is no substitute for excellent marksmanship!

        But answer me this, would you stand in front of this gun at 13 to 17 feet, loaded as is, with your face and torso leading you up a flight of stairs. It’s the barrage factor. What would you do in this scenario if I got the drop on you as the intruder?

        I agree, the Judge is not the best 45LC gun. What is your preference?

        1. I understand marksmanship trumps a lot of other things, but at some point you need to use a good performing round.

          Barrage effect. We could take this a few steps further and ask if someone would want to be standing there with even more (smaller) projectiles. I think asking the “would you stand in front of it” question is not the best way to go about it. I wouldnt want to be slapped either, but will that stop an intruder?

          I use a carbine, the wall penetration, terminal effects, and ease of shooting make it a damned good choice.

          As far as the best .45LC revolver, well if we are changing guns, we can change caliber as well. With that big window open, the sky is the limit.

        2. I couldn’t pass this up. It is comparable to “me me me…. pick me’ in a classroom.
          I would not want to be standing if front of you and the judge. Close Range of 21 feet or less, I believe the Judge to be lethal.
          Now as to what is my preference 🙂 ?
          I would use my modified and shortened barrel 10 gauge shotgun.

          1. Sorry Fank, I hated school…never raised my hand either…the debate will go on about the Judge and the 410 loads…there are pros and cons to each weapon.

            I had a retired detective tell me that almost all of the 500 or so bodies he saw over his 30 years, most of them were killed with a .22.

            I keep my 12 guage available as it is the best choice overall, especially in winter.

            Nice talkin to ya all….

  26. Wow… I’ve never seen so many gun snobe in one place at one time. Maybe we should contact Guinness. They might be interested in what’s going on here.

  27. I get the feeling that the consensus is that the .410 Ga revolver is radical no matter who the manufacturer is. And, as one writer mentioned its an answer looking for a problem. My concern that if its used in a self defense situation its going to put the user in a bad light. Hey, I’m a second amendment guy but I also spent a lot of time in front of lawyers and juries, (I’m a retired detective.) I can see a lawyer trying to paint the user of a revolver like this as a radical cowboy. Why, because the gun, itself is radical. You could be completely within your rights to use deadly force in self defense and end up as a defendant in either criminal but especially civil court. Coupled with the fact that the gun is marginal on power and accuracy there is a second problem. Also remember you are responsible for every projectile (read lead shot) that you fire at someone and your responsible for everything it destroys or injures. Now we have a gun that throws lead shot in a wide pattern that is ineffective for self defense beyond 7 ft but still has plenty of potential to blind an innocent bystander. This all sums up to be a receipe for almost certain disaster! If you’re buying it for a curiosity item or a possible collector’s item once it goes out of production then fine, but please think two, three and four times before you bet your life or a loved ones life on this gun.

    1. Jack,

      I have heard this before from a local gun dealer. “If you shoot him with a 454 Casull, it better be the only gun you had in the house.” I relayed the story to the attorney who conducted my CCW class and asked if there was such a thing as to lethal. He said: “lethal is lethal.”

      Ohio law does not require you to retreat within your own home. Your right to self defense is presumed if unlawful entry is made. And, the perpetrator and all related to him are stripped of there right to civil action against you if the are injured or killed during the commision of a crime.

      As for the Judge, it is quite lethal and if you have never fired one, I hope you get a chance. Yes, it is like a close range mini shotgun. And you are correct family better be behind you. It is a great nightstand gun. A middle off the night gun.

      Your activity and your surroundings dictate the type of weapon you should be holding or have at hand.

      In my opinion, this is not a street gun. I would not carry this one. It is for in home self defence. I would not carry any of my other big bore revolvers either for similar reasons. (S&W model 29 classic, Ruger Vaquero 45LC). My S&W model 317 22LR 8 shot is more than enough for a very close ecounter.

  28. Seems as though most think the 45 LC/410 is a new concept developed and marketed by Taurus, and marketed in the Judge or some other Court System configuration name. Does anyone remember the MIL Thunder Five, introduced in 1992, chambered in 45 LC/410 3″, and in 1994 configured in 45/70 – 45 LC and 410 3″?

    The 45 LC/410 is not a new concept. However, Taurus has done a great job of marketing with the Judge series.

    1. I think MIL went out of business some years ago and the Thunder Five was a 2 1/4 inch barrel.
      Marketing plays a big role.
      MY knives for instance did not really kick off until I introduced marketing.

  29. I have seen the gel penetrations on the Winchester PDX1, on Winchester’s own website there is a video where the “disks” penetrate 10 inches of gel.

    The PDX1’s spread looks bad, because the small bb’s that follow the disks. The disks spread are well grouped out to 7 yards. I agree past 7 yards, this would not be an ideal round to shoot. But in a defensive situation, chances are you are not going to be engaged in a shootout exceeding 7 yards.

    As for the Federal Premium type a search on youtube, there are a bunch of videos where ppl conducted their own tests with ballistic gel or water jugs with 12 inches of penetration. The Federal Premium appears to have a bit better pattern than the Winchester.

    I think a huge problem most ppl have is wanting to shoot this round out to distances of 25 yards plus, and thats not this type of weapon.

    1. Tony,

      EXACTLY! It is a close quarters defensive hand gun. An across the room, down the hall home invasion gun. Either load, Win PDX1 or Fed 000-4 pellet, will do a good job. Most amo comparisons for this gun favor the Fed 000-4 or 000-5 for the magnum version.

      I like the MIX vs. 100% ammo match. Mix your 410s and add a 45LC. Mine is loaded wide to narrow, with a 13 to 17 foot (less than 7 yards) working distance in mind. I’m not looking to knock a buzzard off a fence post @ 25+ yards.

  30. Does anyone have a hunch why SW didn’t come out with the 3″ Magnum version…… I think they should…. SW could rightfully name it the US Constitution.

  31. ???? Does anyone have a hunch why SW didn’t come out with the 3″ Magnum version…… I think they should…. SW could rightfully name it the US Constitution.

  32. I’d guess it has something to do with the .45 acp. I don’t know for sure, but maybe the .45 acp wouldn’t be able to fire out of the cylinder of a 3inch model, I really don’t know.

  33. I see alot of bad press on Tarus, but how many of
    you whiners really own or have shot a
    RAGEING JUDGE loaded in 454 Casull

  34. Realize that S&W VASTLY improved this model over the Taurus Judge. Most noteworthy is the S&W 6 round vs. Taurus 5 round cylinder. Moving along….

    This gun is a modern day blunderbuss. It has its purpose. I am a CA resident and my out of state relative is gifting me this gun. I hope to use it as a close quarter in home or on the boat type defense weapon. It is FAR MORE maneuverable than a shotgun and gives effective results at close range.

    It’s a great weapon, more than just a conversation peace. Will it shoot .45 acp or 45 colt accurate at distance? No. Is it supposed to? No.

    Will it obliterate something at close range? Yes, using any of its 3 rounds’ capabilities.

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