Check any internet gun forum, and one of the most common threads will be complaints about the customer service in gun stores. “I went into Fred’s blast town and had to listen to some 19 year talk about being a Delta Navy Ranger Seal and how the Taurus is the best handgun for special operations.” Or the classic “I went into a gun store to buy a 1911 and they tried to sell me a 38 snubbie because the 1911 might be too much gun to handle.”
Can you imagine if other business tried this approach? You go to a hotel and check in: “hi, I’d like a room with a king sized bed please.”
“Well, you’re not very tall, so a king sized bed might be more bed than you can handle. We have rooms with a twin bed, that might be more your size.”
The jokes write themselves, and I’m sure you guys can come up with plenty other examples. The problem of course is that gun shops tend to hire gun enthusiasts and not people with good customer service backgrounds. That leads people working in shops to forget that fundamentally they’re not different from an Abercrombie employee in the mall or a hotel front desk clerk. It turns out that it’s generally pretty easy to teach people product knowledge, whether that product is used cars or insurance policies. It’s a lot harder to teach them people skills. But there’s a solution for that to, and it’s called “scripting.”
Newer readers to the blog may not know that before I was slinging pixels and lead, I was in the hotel business. I was manager in customer facing roles, and learned a lot about the topic of customer service. Some people in service roles have great people skills and require very little instruction. Other people don’t, and for those people the service industry invented scripting. Scripting is exactly what it sounds like: you train your people to have standard responses for the majority of interactions. All the way down to simple things like saying “my pleasure” instead of “you’re welcome” at the end of conversations, you can develop a script for most customer encounters. The level of detail in a script is dependent on how competent the employee is at dealing with people. Newbies and bridge trolls stay 100% to the script, experienced employees and people-people get leeway.
Honestly, more gun stores should hire this way. Don’t hire gun enthusiasts. Hire people with customer service backgrounds. Hire people who’ve worked in the service industry. If they like guns, great. If they’re ambivalent, fine. Product knowledge is easy.
I have to disagree on some of this. Many of the people who are behind the counter at places people buy guns are asked for advice. The issue being that the advice they give is often horrible. One should have a background to give the ability to answer questions when people come in shopping and are not sure what to get, or the ability to punt the question to someone who actually knows what is a good idea and what isn’t.
That’s a customer service issue, it really is. It’s a product knowledge and service management issue. Tight scripting and teaching employees to say “I’m not sure let me get my supervisor” would fix a lot of that.
Exactly. The way I got “conscripted” at the gun shop down the street from my house was because they started coming to me with questions when I was in there. When they didn’t know they’d punt. Got to the point where I was getting text messages and they would say come in on Saturday and chat with Barron, he’ll help you out on that specific detail.
I always worked on selling the customer what they wanted and was very careful about steering them without cause. If they asked me questions I’d answer them honestly and sometimes the little lady behind the counter who came in wanting a snubbie because that’s what Joe Bob told them to get instead was headed off to the range for the morning. They came back later that afternoon and bought something they shot from the rental counter and liked.
Some liked the snubbie, others preferred the 45, or a 9 or whatever. The bottom line was, and this is what I worked on teaching the guys behind the counter, sell them something they want or that they will enjoy and if you don’t know say so but you’ll find out. If you ace that in customer service, they’ll keep coming back for more toys.
Not to mention I’d rather sell someone a gun they’ll shoot than one that they rarely practice with.
I’ve heard plenty of people talking about getting bad advice from gun shops.
I’ve also heard plenty of the knowledgeable people who used to work at gun shops get pissy that no one respects their advice 😉
Personally, my experience in buying my first handgun was that the *service* I got at four different gun stores was about the best service I have gotten in any industry, in terms of customer care and attention. It was to the point where I felt slightly guilty in not buying from all of them.
The advice I got in terms of actual firearms knowledge, on the other hand, was complete crap.
It always ‘depends’. I remember a gun shop clerk who always recommended a .38spcl 2 inch revolver. Said he could hit the ‘x’ at 100 yards every time. Maybe “he” could. No one I know can. And as advise to a beginner?
It’s not exclusive to gun shops – I have heard the same sort of ‘wisdom’ in shop specializing in model railroad equipment, in shops specializing in radio control cars or airplanes, and in shops specializing in various specialty gaming (role-playing games, or military miniatures). it does come from hiring subject-specialists instead of folks skilled in customer service.
The trouble with “knowledge” is that it comes with a certain degree of ego. An “knowledgeable” man (and they are 99.9% of the time men) chooses to carry a Glock. If you want to buy a Springfield, you are pissing on his unassailable knowledge. After all, his expertise led him to the Glock. (Maybe that’s why the J-frame is such a popular suggestion. It’s so far outside the 1911/Glock/Springfield/[your chosen semiauto here] battlefield, it’s “neutral” to people’s egos.)
Whenever a LGS clerk tells me a gun in his case is crap, my only response is “then why do you sell it?”
The businesses which run their operations like gun stores get sued out of business for discrimination . Imagine how fast Apple would be in court if their employees said to a female customer that she couldn’t handle an iPhone.
I ran a gun shop, here’s what I’d do.
Step one-every 4473 in the shop would have a two question survey attached . Question 1,how was your experience from 1-10?
Q2, would you buy from STs Gun Shop? Anything less then an 8 would be grounds for a discussion. Repeated poor scores would be grounds for promotion to customer.
There’s been way too many times I’ve gone into a gun shop and encountered condescension, brand loyalty,sexism, bias, and even open discrimination in one or two rare cases.
Step two:for the love of God, id change the decor. Why do I buy a cell phone or jacket in a hip and modern shop, while an item of as much import as a firearm is sold in some dingy building which resembles a 1970s factory?
Three:is it too much to ask for a lounge area for customers to comfortably fill out paperwork ? Starbucks has a lounge area. Why can’t a gun shop?
Because hip costs money.
Based on my experience new modern hip gun culture 2.0 stores have prices 10-20% higher (and sometimes even higher to the point that they are above MSRP) than the old dingy gun culture 1.0 stores.
First time or new buyers that don’t know about internet gun shopping may not know that they can price shop at their computer at home. But eventually the user is going to get wise.
*if I ran a gun store.
i have been in a number of gun shops, small and large, and more times than not i wonder whether or not they even want to sell their product? one of the largest shops in jacksonville,fl. has some of the rudest sales people i have ever encountered anywhere. the friendliest folks seem to be those who also have a gun range. i find that the ones with a gun range usually have a good selection of rentals that are very helpful when deciding to purchase a new firearm. i no longer buy a gun that i have not had opportunity of shooting first.
Caleb, your idea wouldn’t work for a gun shop. Unlike a hotel where you have only maybe 4 options, there are nearly infinite options in firearms. I worked in a one of the largest independent gun shops in my state for 6 years and was in charge of employee training. We had more than 2 dozen salesman on the sales floor and more than 5000 firearms in stock.
The way I see it you have 2 options when hiring new gun store employees. Hire experienced enthusiast or hire energetic newbies and train them. We tried to tried to do do both to maintain somewhat of a balance. That was, until we gave up on hiring people with experience.
I had more problems with the experiences shooters handing out more bad information. You also have to deal with those experienced shooters having significant biases. Your example of of someone coming in to buy a 1911 and trying to sell them a j-frame is the perfect example of this. I had a guy who would do this. I also had a gun who would try to sell everyone a 25-06 for anything from rabbits to grizzly bears. Former Law Enforcement where the worst offenders and every time we tried it was an epic failure.
So the other alternative, and to be honest far easier option, was to hire relatively new shooters who had energy and enthusiasm. We tried to give them all the resource I could, books, catalogs and bi-weekly training meetings. We would tell them from the start. Nobody on the planet knows everything about every gun. If you don’t know, look it up if you can’t find it find someone who does. We tried to get the staff to know just 3 unique things about each firearm. For the most part
Your second comment about “I’m not sure let me get my supervisor” is even more ridiculous. It would happen so frequently that there would be no point in even having any other salesman. The supervisor would be needed almost all the time and you are back to square one and trying to hire someone with the sale salesmanship skills as the supervisor. Then you have the additional problem of who handles all of the paperwork issues, orders, and work that is normally reserved for the supervisor.
Here is my advice for your readers on dealing with gun store employees. If you are after a specialized item and need help try to first find an appropriate shop that caters to that style of firearm. Don’t go in with a chip on your shoulder looking to pick a fight or prove you know more than the store clerk. Don’t try and play stump the gun clerk to boost your own ego.
Gun store employees spend most of there day show guns to people who have no intention of buying them. Don’t try to lie about how you are going to buy something if you are just in the shop for some entertainment. The next time you do come in with the intention to buy the store clerk will remember your lies and treat you appropriately.
Don’t blame the store clerk for your bad purchasing decision. If you came in looking for that Beretta Vertec in .40S&W and now you don’t like it. Sell it for what you can, chalk it up to experience and move on. If you are just looking to buy something and are not really going to listen or care what the clerk tell you then look for a shop who that will order what every you want or tell the clerk. “I want to buy this….”
Scripting works just fine for retail cell phone sales, which is a much closer analog to gun sales. A good script starts broad and works its way down to very specific questions. It works just fine for major retail outlets like Macys and JC Penny. It’s almost like retail best practices are applicable regardless of the good being sold. The idea that it wouldn’t work for a gun shop is quite simply false.
A good script should be able to establish what the customer wants/needs and direct them to a range of products that have the features a customer is looking for. The “I don’t know” option only comes out if something weird happens, like someone wants to buy some 9mm Velo Dog ammo. Good scripting isn’t hard, either. It’s all about asking the customer open ended questions so they can establish their own need.
I read an article that detailed how ruger turned itself around by specifically not using enthusiasts with a background in firearms. They wanted market research guys, analysts, etc. Turns out the guns that appeal to enthusiasts are not the ones that sell best. The majority of new concealed carry permit holders want to carry a small light gun like the lcl, not a gp100.
The majority of new permit holders cannot define what a reasonable standard of speed and accuracy for defensive shooting is, or define what an acceptable concealment draw time is. They assume they “shoot good enough” and that under stress they will have enough time and magically be able to perform skills they never practice and have no training in. Gun shop employees can’t define those standards either. Yet the primary purpose of most handgun purchases is self defense. That means customers are selecting life-safety gear, and being “advised” by employees with no real understanding of what they need to be able to do with it.
Every gun shop employee (or gun company engineer) that has the “give the people what they want” mindset should be forced, as a condition of employment, to take a real pistol class with one of the piece of crap guns they sell customers, and then come back for another session as a range coach, helping Grandma with arthritis shoot that $200 balsawood .38 with the 12 lb trigger that felt so light and easy to carry in the store, or helping a left handed customer with short fingers struggle with a DA/SA hicap .45 (giant grip, long trigger reach, and controls only accessible to a right hander, I’m talking about you, SIG) through a defensive pistol class, so they can feel the same pain I do when I and their customers have to deal with the consequences of their ignorance.
Are a majority of newbies ignorant? Yeah maybe they are… However so are a lot of gum store clerks who assume they are some kind of firearms god. I’ve personally tried to deal with a few like that here’s a real life example when I asked about a best pocket .25 I got”you want to buy a little gun (looks at my 6’0″ 250# frame)? Oh no you want a compact .40″… Now my 20 years of shooting and 6 years of carry experience had early taught me small is easy to conceal when my Glock 17 just will *NOT* work! So guess which gun store god didn’t get that sale.
Also it bears pointing out that the customers have the money perhaps we should give them what they want!
point made, DO NOT buy a gun you have not fired. find the gun you are interested in at a gun range that rents guns and try it out.or go to a range with someone who has the gun . i have done this several times and found the gun i thought i would purchase would not do for me.
Kind of makes me wonder if Guitar Center (probably one of the better analogues for a gunship) uses a script.
I always Love the local shop. I go in.. Hey I’d like to buy (insert firearm xyz)… they have one in stock. The Clerk asks me “what do you want it for?”… then he proceeds to tell me why I don’t want that gun I want this other gun..which they can order for me… *face palm*
If someone comes in and wants to buy a gun… let them buy the freaking gun. Unless they ask for help, or advice.. shut up and sell it to them.
Don’t ruin a sale that is already made.
The best shop I have been to was pretty good at “customer asks for x, sell then x.” If the customer asked for advice, they seemed to have a pretty solid script.
-what kind of gun are you looking for? (Pistol/rifle/shotgun)
-what do you intend to use it for? (Ccw/home defense/range fun/hunting)
-what caliber do you want?
Ok, here are the guns we have that fit those criteria. Each has advantages and disadvantages, which I can discuss if you like.
Everyone I talked to about them was always happy with the service, they felt like they cared that the customer got the best gun for their needs.
That’s a great system to work with I think.
That would be an example of a simple, but effective, script. The point of scripting is to point out guns with features that meet the consumers needs and let them choose from there.
For years I owned a store where we sold expensive writing instruments, fountain pens, etc. I found that a blend of sales staff was the best and having one or two old time dorky pen nerds was great for the buyer who purchased a new or antique pen every month or two. They could chat up all the crazy reasons to purchase limited edition collector stuff and crazy ink colors. Those guys could also confuse a new customer coming in to purchase a gift or a first time pen and actually run a done deal sale off.
For that reason I hired people with sales experience and instructed them to listen to the customer and no matter what brand they were interested in buying, focus on that brand and make the sale and keep it simple whit add on items. If the first purchasing experience in a store is fun and easy that customer will come back for more when the time is right.
As for gun stores, the ones I like pay attention to me when I come in and allow me to tire kick a bit and then when I am ready to purchase they are appreciative of my business. Jackson Armory in Dallas Texas is the store that has had most of my business for the past ten years and the second time in I was recognized and welcomed back, I would purchase a gun from time to time but I was never rushed and I was allowed to look at and handle a lot of the fine old fire arms, they have a good supply of old military from the Revolutionary War on up to nifty new black guns and they know there stock and they know how to sell.
I sold guns myself going back to the 60’s and 70’s at times and I know the frustration of standing behind the counter watching an idiot who has no intention of purchasing fondling and fooling around with a nice gun and I even had to stop guys from field stripping 1911’s and slapping cylinders shut. At the same time I have walked into gun shops with cash in my pocket intending to purchase a specific gun I had seen on a previous visit and been treated so poorly I walked out.
It’s not easy working with a blend of new and old customers in a specialty market and I am glad that I am retired and just have to be the customer at this stage of my life. I also agree with folks not wanting to sell junk, the old Rossi .22 Saturday night specials are gone now thank goodness, and you don’t want to sell a Colt Defender to a 60 year old lady with arthritis so it pays to know your inventory and when asked for advice do a good job matching the merchandise to the customer’s needs. I think there has been a lot of improvement over the past ten years and we do have a lot of fine new young shooters showing up at the gun ranges.
Been selling guns a few years now.
A blend of knowledgeable older shooters and younger, eager-to-learn shooters is a good idea. The younger guys are better at focusing on helping the customer find what they want and the older guys tend to know their shit when it comes to their own areas. E.g. nice shotguns, or [animal xyz] hunting, leverguns, old Walthers and Lugers, etc. The problem is when the older guys try to give advice on things that are OUTSIDE their area–A guy who’s a walking encyclopedia of O/U shotguns but doesn’t carry a pistol is going to give some absolutely horrible advice to a first time gun owner looking for something to conceal.
While non-gun people can be trained on some things, I do not think that someone with customer service experience who memorized a list of “features” is a good substitute for someone who a) has actual experience, b) has an interest in the product, c) wants to learn, and d) has minimal ego. I’ve heard the customer service, non-gun types give some incredibly bad (occasionally dangerous) advise. It’s easier to teach a gun nerd basic CS skills than it is to teach a CS pro about guns.
As far as the script thing goes, I guess I’ve been doing that on a basic level. The response to “I’m looking for my first gun” is a series of basic questions involving type of gun, use, caliber, and budget. I actually find it pretty fun, starting with someone who really has no idea what they’re looking for (“my brother in law is a cop and he said I should get a Glock .40/.38 revolver/Desert Eagle” and such) and helping them pick out the one that suits their wants and needs best. Sometimes it’s completely unexpected, like a lady who comes in looking for a j-frame and leaves with a Walther PPQ (which she is very happy with, last I checked).
Several comments in this thread mention that unsolicited advice from a gun salesperson is unwelcome and problematic. As someone who sold guns for a little while, let me tell you the flip-side of that coin, and the reason I quit the job. Too many people go out to buy a gun on a whim, without even knowing which end of the gun the bullet comes out. Gun sellers HAVE to try to weed them out.
These people need a basic handgun training class, which they invariably think they can get right there at the gun counter in the 30 minutes it takes to make their selection. They don’t know the difference between a single action revolver and double action revolver, but they know all about shooting based on their 2 years as a supply clerk in the Army National Guard 30 years ago. They know they want to carry something with “stopping power”, like a .45 ACP, not the obviously inferior “.40 Short and Weak (S&W)” or 9MM. They know they want a “magnum” just in case they have to “drop someone”.
One dissatisfied customer came back a year after buying a single action revolver, claiming the store had sold him a gun in an obscure caliber for which ammunition was impossible to find. His revolver was chambered in .45 Colt. When we showed him several boxes of ammo on the shelf in that caliber, he said “no, see, that’s the problem. It has to say .45 LONG Colt.” Derp.
Then there was the guy who wanted to know what ammo we had to offer in 30-30, and proceeded to tell us how much he loved the caliber because he could also shoot it through his .308. How versatile!
The problem with all of this is that guns bring out a strange quality in people, one which seems unique to guns. People feel the need to project an air of authoritative knowledge on the topic, as if projecting anything less would somehow impugn their manliness. That old standby, “if you can’t impress ’em with intellect, baffle ’em with bullshit”, comes out in quantity. People will bloviate endlessly, expounding whatever nuggets of wisdom they’ve gleaned from years of TV and movies and the occasional issue of a gun magazine they read in a doctor’s office waiting room.
I can’t think of any other product line where a completely ignorant buyer seeks to purchase something that can kill them. Sure, people over-buy electronics they don’t need (think professional-grade digital cameras in the hands of soccer moms), but that’s relatively harmless. People who haven’t completed driver’s education or obtained a driver’s license, for example, don’t go shopping for Formula 1 race cars. Journeymen carpenters don’t go shopping for cranes or cement mixers before they know how to frame a house. Newbie scuba divers don’t gear up to try mixed-gas diving with a rebreather on their first outing. You get the picture.
Gun sellers have an ethical obligation to ascertain whether they’re selling to a knowledgeable customer or some whim-driven accident waiting to happen. Frustrating though that may be for the knowledgeable customer, they should probably just accept that the rubes have ruined it for everyone else.
“people over-buy electronics they don’t need (think professional-grade digital cameras in the hands of soccer moms)”
Ya, I know about that very well, then they will spend hours talking theory, but they still can’t create the Images that we create and then blame the Camera for their Crappy Images!!
A few years ago, I showed one of my Studio Images on a Photo Forum, I was told that My Image didn’t show ANY Creativity or Talent, because I was using “Perfect Lighting”…. Yes, I swear, that is what this Moron said!! How the hell does he think the “Perfect Lighting” came from?? Does he think I sprinkled “Perfect Lighting” Fairy Dust on the Set and it lit itself??
When someone who owns a 6 MP Camera and Makes Small Shitty Photos goes out and buys a 36 MP Camera, he or she will only make BIG Shitty Photos!!
When I worked in IT, my boss would say that the most important trait in the job was integrity; the knowledge and skills necessary to the job can be taught to an intelligent monkey. A lot of geeks would be offended at that, but he’s right. (I would add that people skills were also important.)
I’d say the same thing goes for counter help at a gun shop. The most important trait in counter help is people skills, not product knowledge. If Granny wants a flyweight .38, sell it to her, but ask politely why she wants that gun. Recommend she puts a few rounds through it first. That way, she’ll hopefully remember your cautions when she hates it.
My wife works in the medical field, and they regularly have ‘inservice’ presentations, where a sales rep or one of them will give a short presentation over lunch on some product, technique, or aspect of their business. Were I a gunshop owner, I’d do the same. “This is the lineup of S&W M&P semi-auto pistols, and these are the advantages and disadvantages of them, and the most likely customer types.”
Scripting would definitely help, but a lot of times a gunshop is a vanity shop; it’s run by an enthusiast with his own preferences and prejudices, with varying degrees of accuracy. Hopefully, we’ll see that the professional shops will be successful, while the unprofessional shops will either change or fail.
Bingo. Comic Book Guy isn’t limited to comic shops. You find the same problem in any niche retail environment.
I work at local gun range that offers pistol and rifle rentals as well as a limited range of firearms. The ranges primary focus is just that, a place to shoot, but I spend 75% of my working hours “trying” to answer customer questions. My personal list of advice / points that I try to convey each customer is as follows:
1. “Have A Goal / Define the Intended Purpose of the Firearm” – Is this going to be your carry firearm? Is it going to be for home defense? Is it for hunting? Target shooting? so on and so on.
2. “Research” – I don’t know everything, and I tell every customer that. I qualify all of my recommendations with true personal observations, accomplishments, and most importantly failures. I encourage everyone to get on the internet, join various forums, talk to people out on the range, offer to let people shoot your firearms and maybe they’ll return the favor. This point leads to my next piece of advice.
3. “Try Before You Buy” – Everyone is different, so “Test Drive” the firearm you want to buy or a similar model before dropping a good chunk of money. No one can verbally describe / illustrate to you whether or not a firearm is a good fit for you. 50 – 100 rounds down range with that firearm is the only way for the customer to determine whether they will love or hate it. I always push the “Rental” option not as a money maker for the range, but to make this particular point: “If you buy something you hate, you won’t carry it, and when you need to defend yourself, you’ll be empty handed”. That’s why our range offers people to swap out to a different pistol or rifle at no extra charge so they can compare / contrast different models / calibers etc.
4. “Know Your Limitations” – This is the last point I try to make. I know my limitations (or at least realize that I do have some limitations, and probably some I don’t), and tell people they should know theirs as well. “Leave your ego at the door. A particular brand, caliber, model, etc doesn’t define you. To me, consistent accuracy is the goal. Carrying / Shooting a .44 Mag isn’t for everyone. It certainly is an interesting caliber and is the right firearm for certain folks in certain situations, but if you can’t shoot a smaller caliber accurately, then stepping up to this caliber may be something you put on hold until you feel like you’ve mastered the fundamentals”.
Many years ago at a gun shop long out of business, one of the salesmen was a man of about 70 years old. If I or any other customer asked to see a “black rifle”, he would go into a tirade about plastic, military finish, and lack of accuracy. This despite the prices on these military type rifles was considerably higher than most of the normal bolt/lever sporting type rifles. (This was the late 70’s.
This is NOT only seen in Gun Stores!! I have seen the exact same behavior in some members of the Gun Media!!
Caleb Excluded, he loves Black Guns
I Scripting absolutely works if done correctly by management. As far as the gun shop experience goes, I find that there are as many perspectives and opinions as there are people and gun sales guys. I did research prior to going in. I developed in my mind what characteristics I was looking for in a firearm, asked questions knowing I was getting their opinion, and then weighed what I was being told at the gun shop to see if they had a valid point or not. If I heard something I didn’t agree with, I’d research some more.
At one point, I just had to decide for myself and learn from experience. I’m grateful for places with rental guns at great rental prices as I believe this is the best way to find what fits your needs. I also like to learn from others mistakes and would listen intently to what they had to say until my BS meter would top out and I’d move on.
If you script a salesperson to ask more open ended questions than give advice, then I think it becomes a win-win for everyone. I recently heard from a female coworker she was going in with her boyfriend to buy a gun.
I said to her: “you’re going to get a lot of advice (including what I’m telling you now). Try out as many guns as you can and get the one you like the best.” I’m excited to see what she decides on.
I think someone else nailed in this thread. The biggest problem is that most gunshops are hobbyist business, and are not operated by people serious about making a profit.
I hope you reminded him that the actual, literal definition of “photography” is “writing with light”.
There’s no fixing stupid!!
Just like in the Gun Industry, some think that if they spend money on a tool (Gun or Camera) It will make them better!!
Remember that beginners in any endeavor depend on the experienced to teach and advise. Unfortunately some give bad to horrible advice.. The long defunct gunshop I mentioned earlier had another salesman who was in love with Weatherby Magnums. A new shooter would come in and he would recommend the 7mm Weatherby . I used to find loaded rounds and full boxes (I still have them) in the garbage at my local range. I think he sold the same rifle 3-4 times. Idiots like this are dangerous.This really did happen.
“Can you imagine if other business tried this approach?”
One of my friends went to a car dealership in the late 90s to buy a full-sized conversion van. The salesman tried to direct him towards the minivans (which have a much higher margin), so my friend immediately walked.
That said, I agree that gun stores seem to do this much more.
These days the .22LR ammo is kept behind the counter instead of on the shelf like the other ammo. I like to try all different brands and types. I ask the clerk to hand me a box so I can read the labeling. Instead he wants to play 20 questions with me: what do I shoot, what for, blah blah. I just want to read the box! I want to know details: what velocity (the actual number of fps, not the category,) RN or HP, CP or L, how many rounds in the box, etc. I’m always looking to learn new things in the shooting world, but the average clerk isn’t likely to know more about .22LR ammo than me.