Unless you have been in a cave the last couple of days, you’ve probably seen the link to this new ammo called RIP, which stands for Radically Invasive Projectile. They have been running a truly impressive (and annoying, but more on that later) marketing campaign, to the point that their ammo has damn near gone viral. I’ve seen links to it on forums, facebook, had people email me and message me, so I guess it’s time to talk about the newest in trendy ammo. Let’s begin then with their own marketing video and go from there.
If you can get past the incredibly cheesy voice-over, the video basically consists of them shooting the 9mm RIP projectile into a bunch of different mediums in various unscientific ways. While I deeply enjoy footage of stuff getting hit by bullets in slow-motion, if you’re claiming that this is the “last round I’ll ever need” I want to see some actual barrier tests. But conspicuous in their absence are those barrier tests. Yes, they show the round going through a cinderblock, but they don’t show what happens in gel after that. They show some bare gel shots, but nothing that would involve defeating even a standard four layer denim test. Basically, the entire video is just wild claims and dudes shooting machine pistols. If that was all this video was about, I’d probably not be writing about it. But again, they’re claiming that this bullet does something special. Now we’ll take a look at that using science.
This is G2R’s own image that shows the performance of the round when shot into bare gel. Here’s what you’re looking at: on the right, you have multiple permanent wound tracks from the trocar points that don’t appear to penetrate much further than 5 inches. That’s extremely shallow. You then have one single projectile, the base of the bullet which appears to act like an FMJ after the trocars separate and penetrate another 12-16 inches. It leaves a very small permanent wound track while doing this. Essentially, you have a round that combines all the negative performance aspects of an FMJ round (possible over-penetration, narrow wound track) with all the negative performance of a Glaser safety slug (nasty looking shallow wound channel, not a lot of real penetration). Don’t let their high speed video fool you, either. Remember that temporary stretch cavities are not a significant wounding mechanism in handgun ballistics. Basically, just because their gel appears to bounce and flex doesn’t mean that’s actually going to cause any permanent tissue damage.
Finally, I want to address their marketing campaign. I must first doff my cap, because it’s absolutely worked. As mentioned, I’ve seen a number of links to the new product all over Facebook, my inbox, and various forums. But how much of that is real traction? Many of the forum posts and links have been all the same, with the title a variation of “The new round that has gun owners drooling”. First off, that’s a bunch of horseshit, since most of us didn’t know about your gimmick round until two days ago. Secondly, I know for a fact they’ve been sockpuppeting accounts on forums to get some of these posts, which is a shady maneuver as well. Lastly, the whole thing just reeks of SEO-optimized clown shoe mall-ninja fantasy nonsense.
Here’s the Gun Nuts Verdict on the G2R 9mm R.I.P. (Rapidly Invasive Projectile): It’s an overpriced gimmick round that doesn’t anything that can’t be done better with something else. Don’t waste your time and money with this nonsense. If you want deep penetration, shoot FMJ. If you want a massive, ugly, shallow wound use a Glaser. If you want a round designed to actually stop fights, use Winchester Ranger, or Federal HST, or Speer Gold Dots.
Stating that it has “Gun Owners drooling” only adds fire to the anti-gun campaigns by making lawful owners look like crazed fools. We don’t need more of that.
For those anti gun lack of BRAIN and PRINCIPLES may be this is something to talk about as a concern. i t that’s no matter how destructive or effective is the bullet or the weapon; what really matter, is who is holding that weapon.
The benefits of this bullet may lie in barrier penetration. I’d like to see more on that in the ballists test: through wood, glass, clothes, car doors, etc.
If this round had benefits worth advertising and boasting they would have included them in the video. They make claims that it “Defeats all known barriers such as sheet metal, sheet rock, windshields, plywood, heavy winter clothing”. If this was in fact the case wouldn’t you think they would include at least one clip of it “defeating” one of these materials?
Go to the site and watch the videos they do show it!
If you want barrier penetration and expansion, carry Hornady Critical Duty.
If you want barrier penetration carry a SAM7F pistol with magazines loaded in M43 cartridge 😉 That would probably do it for ya.
I feel an editorial coming about “magic bullets” coming soon!
Great analysis. Not the first bullet to fly into parts. Wasn’t it Aguila that had a bullet with splint into 4 parts upon striking a target some 10 years ago. Went over like a lead balloon, er, bullet! Thanks for taking apart this hype.
I love how on several tests that some of the shards, for lack of better term, come out of the side of the block. Now to me that makes it seem like a 9mm buck and ball, and why wouls you want that?
*would not wouls
No, Jeremy, we’re going to hold you to “wouls”.
You typed it, now live with it.
:^D
Trip: “Geez, what happened to this poor guy?”
Milo: “Idiot tried using some gimmick ammo on a pack of wouls.”
Holly: “Ewwww!”
Milo: “Pissed off the wouls to no end.”
I live in Long Beach, CA. There are no WOLVES here, but a few Coyotes that run off with the Neighbors Cats and Dogs now and then; maybe a few kids too!. Good Riddins!. Oh, Excuse me! Did I say that; Sorry, (NOT REALLY). My Two Dogs eat the Two legged Coyotes Too!
“RIP” is so Zombie-sounding. How about “NInja Star Ammo?”
Yeah!, I know, Get a Life! You’ll be happy you did. I have to rest, my back hurts–I think I just passed a 1958 Buick Land Barge.
I understand completely. At my age, the passing of life is often successful passing of things through my digestive system.
Spelling and English language courses starting every hour on the hour. Sign up now before your next post. Yes, I’m an Asshole and I love It!.
WoUls, not wolVes. Wouls are an undead species with a fairly low PUFF bounty, but really dangerous if riled up.
According to the dictionary, “woul” is an obsolete form of the verb “howl.” Make of that what you will. 🙂
Hear hear for the Speer gold dot.
Apply red dot, then gold dot? 😀
Until the FBI, air Marshall’s, CIA, or my local police or sheriff starts carrying it, I’m not interested. Hopefully this doesn’t even last as long as hornady zombie roubds
At least the Hornady rounds were just rebranded Critical Defense.
I think there actually is a piece of glass in front of one of the first gel blocks shot. That being said, I still think it’s stupid.
Does the RIP ammo come only in the 9mm, or can you get it in .45 and other calibers?
Only 9 for now they are looking at doing 380, 357, 45, 45acp, and Shotgun
More voodoo nonsense ammo. Some kid has a kewl idea (“Like, it has fangs! Awesome!!”) and out it goes.
But, when it comes to Ammo and the internet, Voodoo tends to have more draw than Science (hint: go with Science. They’ve been doing this for a while).
It will be really ugly for the first poor sap to end up in court after a self defense shooting using this stuff.
The anti’s are going to have a field day with this one. I’m all for doing things to poke at them but naming this the RIP (I know they say it stands for something else, but you know it’s a play on Rest in Peace) is going to have the anti’s salivating over something to crucify.
Joe in PNG–Good point. Infomercials rarely offer items that would sell due to their own qualities and existing market demand. This is in line with what Jerry Miculek calls “tacti-cool.”
I believe the RIP round needs to prove itself by against the stated materials otherwise it’s just another fragmentation round. What happens when target is 30 or 40 ft away using the same stated materials?
Norm–excellent point. Just looking a terminal ballistics is not enough. What the effect of those jagged edges on every things else? Might need gloves to load the darn things just to keep from getting cut!
You seem to have overlooked the fact that this stuff would be prefect for warlocks, ghosts, demons and orcs. I’m not sure but I bet it would do OK on trolls too. Gee, that’s reason enough to buy a case, right?
Now it is beginning to make sense! I wonder if they could make these in neon green?
Here is another consideration… this advertising as well as the fact that this is not a commonly carried round may be profoundly unhelpful in the aftermath of even a fully justified shooting in a self protection situation.
Example: Given identical circumstances (Self protection shooting that is clearly justified by your local laws). Using the same model firearm (This is 9mm, so lets go with the Glock 19 for this scenario because it is so commonly used for concealed carry).
Subject #1 trains frequently and has made some common mods (sights, mag release), and the carry ammunition is one of the commonly accepted and widely available options used for defensive purposes.
Subject #2 has a trigger advertised by the company as “competition only”, a Punisher logo on his slide, and is using this new R.I.P. ammunition.
Those 2 guys are going to have distinctly different experiences in court. It is important to understand that the second guy in the example could be seriously hosed even if he is fully legally justified in the shooting. Remember that “Jury of your peers” does not necessarily mean someone who understands self protection or who has even a basic working knowledge of firearms. They may get all their gun knowledge from movies and watching the gun control debate rage on TV (because they saw something on the news, it MUST be accurate right?).
Self protection starts before the encounter, but also extends beyond it to the potential further impact on your life from resulting criminal / civil implications. This is why all LE agencies have at least some form of ongoing use of force training. I have frequently heard (usually from someone who is woefully ignorant of the reality of violent confrontations, by the way) “I would rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6”. Wow… that sounds great. And part of the problem with this statement lies in the fact that, at the root of it, the statement is absolutely true. I am most certainly NOT advocating hesitation in the face of dire threat because of imagined potential legal issues. It does not count as “winning” if you avoid your court case because you died first due to hesitation. With that said, I most definitely want the 12 people judging my actions to view them in a favorable light if that is in any way possible.
This also does not mean that you can’t make modifications to your equipment. Many people rush into that though, substituting the latest cool gear for training. Some stuff is almost a given. In the Glock 19 example above, I would not hesitate to recommend to a new shooter that they invest in some new sights for example. But for the same new shooter, I would recommend that they train and live with their gear a bit so they could learn what further mods will actually benefit them. Using the example above… a trigger advertised as “competition only” may be fantastic for your competition gun, but on a carry gun, may or may not unnecessarily complicate things. Is that a chance you want to take? This is a personal choice and there are a lot of variables to consider, but it is important to at least understand the decision you are making.
For anyone involved in a deadly force encounter, just remember that your actions and split second decisions will be looked at under a microscope and judged by people who weren’t there. The good news is that there is a growing body of good case law and better understanding of how these encounters unfold now. Someone who makes intelligent choices in gear selection and training and who acts in a reasonable manner has a much better chance to come through the aftermath fine. Obviously there are no guarantees where people are involved, but with just a little common sense you can make a favorable outcome much more likely.
Sorry… that ran a little long. I was a use of force trainer for my department for a little over 10 years before I was retired due to an on duty injury and this kind of thing pushes my rant button a bit. I wouldn’t like to see someone burned in court when they were fully justified in their actions just because of some slick advertising (which apparently this was since it has gone viral).
@Dennis H: Great advice that rings true with a local case years ago. In that case the gun owner was using hot reloads from home. In court he was made to look like a fanatic. Nowadays I think they could just pull up Facebook or Twitter info and do the same for many gun enthusiasts, especially for those of us in states like Crazifornia.
“Yes, they show the round going through a cinderblock, but they don’t show what happens in gel after that.”
That’s because the bullet didn’t go thru the cinderblock. If you watch their video, it goes thru the outside of the block and into the first cavity, but doesn’t penetrate the second wall of the block. I still can’t figure out why they bothered to include the footage.
Can I shoot this out of my new “ghost gun”? It has the 30 cal clip mag fore butt griper thingy and a sight that sees through walls and people and it glows in the dark!!
Wow, I guess my comment would be, what are you going to do to keep this Round out of the Governments hands? Y’all know that when they get their hands on these we will never see any unless the Department of Homeland Security is shooting them at us. The Law abiding Gun Owners. Also you know that when Reed or Pelosi catch wind of these they will be the worst thing we could have. You Know its true. Please respond.
They don’t want them, they already have stuff that works.
“The (fillintheblank) that (organization) doesn’t want you to have” is advertising doubletalk for “buy this you sucker”.
I guess I’ll have to stop packing my .410 Judge revolver with the flechette rounds . . .
Imagine yourself sitting on the witness stand while the jury passes that box around.
No, thank you. If some ambulance chaser is going to pin the “bloodthirsty monster” label on me over my choice of SD ammo, they are going to have to pin it on the California Highway Patrol too.
Thank you for setting the record about this, what I call garbage round, I didn’t like their promo and I looked at the performance in the gel also and wasn’t impressed. Thank you again, for your well thought out and expressed article
Science is math. 96 grains at 1,265 feet per second does not equal 490 foot-pounds. This is a fraud.
You beat me to it. It’s about 340 ft. lbs. And “16 inches of penetration” in what? Calibrated 20% ballistic gelatin? A bag of styrofoam peanuts? A pile of baby unicorn poop? They never say.
I’ve never been.a fan of gel for any ammo. Shooting the chicken vudeo got my attention with this round (supermarket whole chicken). This what I expect a self defense round to perform in a real flesh & bone test. Yes the chicken is a bit smaller than the center mass of a human but the massive wound channels & exit wounds are damn impressive in my mind. I’d like to see some denim layers & a zipper incorpoated into some test shots. I’m still open minded to see if this rip can live up to it’s name. Let further testing begin.
There is a brilliant marketing plan going on:
1) Overhype the ‘destructive power ‘of the ammo
2) Get the usual antigunners to bleat about banning it
3) Panic selling!!! Buy it before it gets banned!! Loud noises! !! Yelling!!! Pelosiriedobama!!!
4) Profit!
Exactly! Why would ANYONE need RIP bullets? You don’t need RIP bullets to kill deer! These bullets are an assault on humanity .. .uh, wait a minute . .. They are ASSAULT BULLETS!
You nailed it. Surfing the gun boards last few days I think we should update that old W. C. Fields quote to “there’s a sucker born every microsecond, and he’s got a 9mm pistol.”
If they really wanted the pros to weigh in on these, they would have brought them to SHOT.
There’s a video on you tube of this round being shot through its either 12 or 15 layers of denim into ballistic gel
Gee! All ammo is overpriced. It’s simply a result of the industry saying “Shortage of supply, Copper and brass is too expensive and we have to raise prices. Lead factories are going out of business (BULL SHIT). Now we can raise prices 200% and get away with it. Well, I havent reloaded ammo in 20 yrs. I have all the equipment in stock now at 20 years ago prices including bullet swageing equip. Just got back into it for friends and relatives only. I can almost do it in my sleep. I have 800 lbs. of 50-50 bar solder, four (4) 50 gallon drums of wheel weights, 20 thous. of various copper jackets both hand gun and rifle all bought wholesale years ago + coils of 50 ft.dead lead wire in various guages for swageing handgun and rifle bullets of all calibers. Allthough swageing bullets is a tedius task if your only going hunting for Godzilla. Gun powder I can get anywhere , especially in Nevada, my Second home, soon to be my permanent residence in about a year. You mentioned Winchester, Speer, I live close to the Speer factory in Santa Fe Springs, CA for bullets they will ship to me on a skid in 24 hrs. But you didn’t mention Hornady XTP’S that I load for my Glock 10 mm. and my wifes’ 9mm Baretta 92f. Mostly all Hollow points and several large bags of ffj for plinking. I load for my mini thirty, rem. semi-auto 30.06, Ruger mini-14 , and Win. 30-30 lever gun. Tons of 45 acp for my Mac 10, S&W Model 1955 Target Revolver and my Colt Python (Haven’t shot in years). Copper plated lead bullets are crap, don’t use em because there cheap and dont shoot them in a Glock because you will need facial plastic surgery and a new set of teeth. Stick with the many years tried and proven ammo. If you shoot a lot, reload ,it will pay for itsself in a short period of time. Buy Brass on Amazon, Go figure.
(with apologies to Larry Correia)
“Because RIP sucks and we hate it.”
Brent m. I checked youtube for denim test for rip. None to be found. Like I said I’ll wait for more testing & info before I make a choice.
Man, lots of experts. None that have even seen the damn things.
I don’t need to get herpes to know I don’t want it.
We can easily see from their own tests that they combine the worst features of birdshot and FMJ.
I guess they’re for people who really like the Judge but don’t want to trade in their Hi Point.
LOL. What are they gonna do when the see that a 20 rd. box of RIP gimcrack is selling for more than they paid for the Hi Point?
Going on Gun Broker for $245 to $250 for a box of 20. What a deal!
G2 Research RIP 9MM 96 Grain Hollow Point Ammo – 20 Rounds per Box – $44.00 at Ammunition Depot: http://www.ammunitiondepot.com/RIP-9MM-Ammo-p/g2rip9.htm That doesn’t, however, make them any less of a gimmick.
We have seen the promotional materials, presumably intended to showcase the product in the best light, and are unimpressed. We …some of us, anyway…have also seen this movie before. Google Extreme Shock Fang Face bullets for an example. What we haven’t seen are 3rd party tests in a controlled environment. If these bullets conform to historical norms for the type they will be prohibitively expensive and have lackluster performance in unbiased tests. I am prepared to be proven wrong, of course, but I’m not going to lose any sleep over the possibility.
One other thing everyone seems to have missed. Their website claims a 96 grain bullet at 1265 fps producing “490 muzzle energy”. 490 of what? If you do the math 96 grains at 1265 fps is about 340 foot pounds, not 490.
Actually a George Hull (not Fields or Barnum) quote.
Y’all are missing the upside. The fear-mongers and trend-followers will buy this up, allowing 22LR to return to normal market prices.
Looks a lot like the Liberty Civil Defense round, minus the ludicrous velocity and muzzle blast.. which is to say Impressive at first glance.
They’ll look cool sitting next to my old school box of Black Talons. Those too had a bit too much media hype (although not from the manufacturer, but from anti gunners mostly) and really didnt do what all the hype claimed they would do. They both make great conversation pieces, and if necessary can be used to stop a threat, kill dinner, or poke holes in paper. Media hype and negative comments aside, I sure wouldn’t want to get hit by one of them. Dead men can’t tell you what kind of projectile hit them.
The difference is that Black Talon rounds were effective JHPs with a scary name and a black coating, and these RIPs are marketed as killer bullets but are likely one of the less effective rounds out there.
I think some people confuse Black Talon, an excellent ammo, with the hyped up stunt called “Black Rhino” of twenty years ago.
RIP=Black Rhino
“Blackhttp://articles.chicagotribune.com/1994-12-28/news/9412280049_1_black-rhino-signature-products-corp-guns-last-year
You knock the Glaser but here in the desert with thin clothes, My 10mm Glock 20 loaded with Glaser blues is the most effective weapon that is commonly available.
If I went to a colder climate, I would feel perfectly comfortable with some glaser silvers.
I do have to agree with you if you are restricting the Glaser criticism to 9mm and 45acp though.
I now have available for immediate shipping: ulti-R.I.P. self defense ammo!! Guaranteed to hit every major organ in your adversaries body at the same time with our new MaleMallNinja patented flux-capacitoring guidance system.
Do not use near fault lines or large bodies of water or earth quakes and tsunamis could occur.
Available in: 25 ACP only
Looking at manufacturing in ALL known weights and sizes if we can prove to DOD that it won’t cause a black hole or Armageddon. some restrictions may apply not available in all states.