This past weekend there was a shooting in the city of Atlanta in an area called “Little 5 Points”. For that area of town, the fact that there was a shooting early on a Saturday morning, isn’t all that surprising. However the details of this particular shooting are a bit more complicated than they first appeared. When I first heard the announcement on the radio, the report was: While attempting to hold up a group of people at gun point, a robber was shot and killed by a concealed carry permit holder. The police were satisfied that this was a self defense shooting and the people who were protected by the shooter, were calling him a hero. But this was not the whole story at all.
On Saturday, before dawn, a group of twenty or more people were waiting in front of a shoe store for the release of a new basketball sneaker. The expensive shoes had been profitable for man, who the store claimed, had been pick-pocketing those on line outside the store all during the the previous week. On Saturday morning this man approached the group and attempted to rob them at gun point. A man who had been waiting on line drew his concealed weapon and the robber ran. This is when the robber was shot and killed.
This was the news report from 6 hours after the shooting:
Then the restaurant next door to the shoe store realized that they had video footage of the event and shared it with local press. Notice the robber, in black, the customer in white and the shooter in red:
In this clip the reporter claims that the man in white is the customer with the ccw. So why do we see a man in red pull the trigger? The police released a statement, after receiving the surveillance video, that stated they would take a closer look at what appeared to be a second shooter and follow up if necessary. (11alive.com)
When I saw the surveillance footage the first thing that came to mind was, the robber appears to be running away. With this in mind I began to question how, those of us who carry, must conduct ourselves in this age of constant surveillance. This shooting was a cut and dry self defense shooting, but after seeing the film, it could be reasoned that the shooter was no longer being threatened when he pulled the trigger.
• If you pulled your weapon in self defense, lined up the shot and began to squeeze the trigger, and then the threat turned and ran, what would you do?
• If there were 20 or more people standing together who were all being held at gun point and you were one of them, would you draw? Would you fire your weapon in such a crowd?
Did anyone else notice that the video’s time stamp starts at 05:31:52 then blips and is suddenly on 05:33:25 so there is a little less than two minutes that got clipped out? Then the video changes frame and is now showing 05:26:51 and this is when the guy fires.
And maybe I’m completely blind but I don’t see a guy with a gun robbing anyone, the guy in red is firing at someone as that guy is running past him but how do we know that this guy was really robbing people at gun point?
I think it would be nice to see the unaltered video from start to finish over this youtube video.
Also when the guy in red fires upon the guy in black, he is already running from the scene so is he considered a lethal threat to anyone at that moment? Did this guy really have a right to shoot this man? Don’t get me wrong but I’m not backing the criminal here but more or less making a mental note of this because I was taught in my CCW class that if the threat is no longer a threat that you are not to shoot and when the guy in red draws, the guy in black is already fleeing the scene.
Is this just me?
In answer to the question, “If you pulled your weapon in self-defense, lined up the shot and began to squeeze the trigger, and then the threat turned and ran, what would you do?
I would hope that I would stop myself from shooting but I’m not certain if I would be able to comprehend the situation quick enough to stop once the trigger is about to be pulled.
Yes, the robbery happens out of frame.
Your point about the time stamp is an interesting one. This was the best video I could find, but hopefully more information will come to light.
The fact that the guy is running away when he gets shot is exactly my point. We would not now this if it were not for this video.
And yes, exactly… Would your instincts react as quickly as the situation changes.
I’d like to set a mock up of this scenario with a personal defense instructor and see what the outcomes might be.
I couldn’t find any better videos either, I wanted to find something where the images weren’t so blurry.
I think part of what this incident illustrates, is the variability of real life. We can run drills all day long, but in the moment of a situation, a lot more variables may be at play. When you carry, know the local laws, know, your gun and keep up your situational awareness.
All those thoughts crossed my mind as well since I do have my CCW. I guess the best any of us can do is as you said, know the local laws, know your gun and keep up your situational awareness.
Why would anyone who carries answer these questions in an online format that can be used against you later on?
I saw a Massad Ayoob demonstration on how fast a person can turn and be shot in the back by someone defending himself. From that demonstration you can be firing (squeezing the trigger) in self defense and shoot someone in the back. I would like to see/read your report on how it works in your scenario if you do get to set one up.
I would like to think that I could and would stop firing after the robber started running away but I haven’t been there and hope never to be. TS
Gabby, would it be possible to get a brief CV from you on your training and experience in Judicious Use of Deadly Force?
Tam, Gabby never claimed to be an expert nor to have formal training on the matter. She is simply opening the subject matter up for discussion. Perhaps you would like to chime in with something constructive.