Comments like this one really, really piss me off – in fact they piss me off so bad that the only comments I’ve ever deleted other than obvious spam were along the same lines of “let’s shoot some cops”. The comment below was made in reference to a fellow who was arrested for legally openly carrying and then made some poor choices after the fact – but at least he was smarter than this guy:
Why? Because I believe that submitting to this sort of infringement and then trying to seek redress in the courts is a de facto surrender of my 2A rights. I would shoot the bastards [the police] on the spot without a second thought [emphasis mine]. As it is, I frequently carry concealed without a CCW because I refuse to submit to an unconstitutional permitting process.
Talking about shooting police in a public forum, website, or anything like that is always a dumb idea. If some guy is getting arrested for carrying legally and decided to shoot it out with the cops, I will be the very first person to throw his ass to the legal wolves, because murdering police officers is never, ever going to make our case.
Whether or not I personally have a line that I won’t allow the government to cross isn’t even the issue, because like everyone else, I do – but I certainly won’t be bragging on the internet about how I’d “shoot the bastards”.
In case you hadn’t noticed, I’m usually “pro-law enforcement” on here; in part because both my dad and I work/worked in law enforcement. I believe that as a movement, it only helps gun owners to have the police on our side, and as many of us know a lot of rank and file cops are already on our side. But all this crap about shooting cops because they’re “infringing” on your rights is stupid. If one CCW holder decides to get blasty-blasty with the police, it screws over every single other law abiding gun owner in the country, because don’t think for a minute that the media wouldn’t blare that incident all over the news night and day.
On the other hand, if a CCW holder is wrongfully arrested and detained, and fights the battle through the legal system and wins, instead of ending up a dead idiot, he becomes a legal precedent.
I guess I should thank my lucky stars that most people who talk about shooting cops on the internet are armchair commandos, and would never actually go through with it in real life – of course, that doesn’t lessen the stupidity of saying things like that. Alienating law enforcement will never help us expand our right to keep and bear arms, and will only increase the current divide in public perception between “us and them”.
‘But all this crap about shooting cops because they’re “infringing” on your rights is stupid.’
And how! Small historical footnote, but it seems that nearly exactly this kind of scenario described by the commenter (albeit with open carry rather than concealed) is what prompted the shooting of Texas outlaw Sam Bass:
(excerpt from Wikipedia):
Bass was able to elude the [Texas] Rangers until a member of his gang, Jim Murphy, turned informant when his father was imprisoned in Tyler, Texas. He cut a deal to save his father, and informed the lawmen about the gang’s plans and movements. As Bass’s band rode south, Murphy telegraphed Major John B. Jones, commander of the Frontier Battalion of Texas Rangers.
Jones set up an ambush at Round Rock, where Bass planned to rob the Williamson County Bank. On July 19, 1878, Bass and his gang scouted the area before the actual robbery. When they bought some tobacco at a store (Sam was actually also buying candy – as he had a sweet tooth), they were noticed by Williamson County Sheriff A.W. (Caige) Grimes. Grimes did not even recognize the gang, rather he noticed that they had side arms, and Texas had passed a law requiring that all side arms be surrendered when entering town. Grimes approached the men to request that they surrender their sidearms, not knowing it was Bass and Co., and because he was blocking the entrance, was shot and killed. Grimes only got off one round before he died, and a heavy gunfight ensued between the outlaws, the Rangers and the local lawmen. A deputy named Moore was mortally wounded, as was Sam Bass.
============
Also, a similar issue was at the heart of the events leading up to the shootout at the OK Corral…
(long, but worth reading)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ok_Corral
Upon reading this, Is it just me, or do the Earps come off sounding like BATFE agents of their day?
Both laws in both cases were, seems to me, patently unconstitutional, but perhaps the lesson to draw is like the ditty to the People’s Court used to put it, “don’t take the law into your own hands, you take ’em to court…”
…Though in both the above cases, both sets of perps seem to have had what today we’d call a “rap sheet”. Wouldn’t have been ideal “test cases”, in other words.
I’m no legal scholar, and I do know much of modern “gun control” came from Southern Whites acting against freed Blacks in the post-Civil War Reconstruction era and Jim Crow…and it’s an excellent historical talking point, but how much of that actually influenced/impacted these types of city ordinances out west…in Texas and Arizona in the 1870s and 1880s?
We like to rhapsodize about how free gun owners were in the Old West, but already by 1878 in the case of Sam Bass we arguably see increasing infringement on 2A rights…
…I’m guess I’m trying to understand how America went from tolerating open carry and viewing concealed carry as “dastardly” and “unmanly”–to almost the opposite today, with concealed carry being seemingly much more acceptable to many Americans than open carry.
This would be excellent historical material for Stephen Halbrook to dive into, or other 2A legal scholars.
I support the right of open carry in principle, but as a practical matter, I would prefer to carry concealed (and that’s currently my only legal option in Texas, because our state law specifically forbids open carry)–even if it *were* legal for me to open carry here. I’d simply prefer not to draw attention to myself, retaining a potential element of surprise if ever needed.
If one CCW holder decides to get blasty-blasty with the police, it screws over every single other law abiding gun owner in the country, because don’t think for a minute that the media wouldn’t blare that incident all over the news night and day.
Fortunately, that doesn’t apply to our friend, Mr. Numbskull, since he admits he doesn’t have a permit. Y’know, since concealed carry restrictions are unconstitutional, and all that.
I don’t think they’ll make gun owners look any worse than any other generic cop killer. That person isn’t a law abiding gun owner, they are a murdering criminal.
Just the other day Glenn Reynolds posted a link to an old article he wrote on the right of revolution. His argument was compelling that the founders only considered that right as available when there was no representation. As long as there are freely elected representatives and working courts, political action, not armed revolt, is how you bring about change.
http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/archives2/020026.php
I forsee a short future for Mr. Knickledick, as his method is the first to draw an overwhelmingly disproportionate jackbooted response, especially as an intemperate non-holder of the aggrieved permit.
Not to mention you are not anonymous on the net, unless you know exactly what you are doing and are very, very careful. Dingwah brain could find his ass being tracked down if someone really wanted to find him.
Well, it apparently turns out that it was a “prank” of sorts by a regular commenter on Sebastian (and my) blogs, to “provoke thought”. I suppose it did work at that, if only for the fact that I “thought” that the OP was a moron.
I feel the same way about people who loudly proclaim that anyone they find in their home will get blown away, every round of my 30 round magazine and after they’re down, a bullet between the eyes, and so on.
Said often enough to friends and family who might be compelled to testify after said incident, or published repeatedly on a blog which might be introduced as evidence, this has the potential to do tremendous damage if it happens, with the added benefit of making us all look like Neanderthals in the meantime.
I was the one that said you don’t win arguments with the police, you win arguments in court.